Aida Sound Users Forum

Hi,

First off,

Great features for the new 1.4 - am well impressed -especially with expression maps and Midi Remote control . I love the new Midi remote - because UNLIKE Quick Controls it outputs MIDI CC instead of Automation in lanes, making it much easier for my workflow . Which leads me to my next question ;

As great as the Midi Controller in Dtouch is, it doesn't QUITE solve the problem i am having with my large composer template. I use many different libraries in VE Pro 6, and Quick controls are amazing for being able to control each different system of MIDI CCs by each developers -BUT as it outputs Automation instead of Midi CC , it can be a pain to work with if you spend alot of your time in the MIDI Editor . Further more, using MIDI CC data for Midi tracks, rather than Automation, gives me a much smoother experience , and is much easier for me to work with - no Read and Write etc enable needed.

I have a 8 x 100mm Dedicated Fader Unit which i map to the quick controls , and would LOVE if the guys at DTouch can work some under the hood magic to get it to output MIDI cc or have a similar system that can assign MIDI cc on a track by track basis.

I am aware that i could set it up as a Generic Remote in Cubase - but as stated, because there is so many different CC controls for different sample libraries (and some you cant change) , having that many templates would not be practical , with 300+ tracks. Similarly, VST controls are not so good as i use VE Pro, often housing many many VSTs.

The Dtouch Fader is the closest thing yet to what i am after - it would just be great if there could be "Quick Control" profiles for different midi tracks / sample libraries as having 80 CC faders on screen maybe a bit too much !

I fully realise that you can change automation data to CC and vice versa, but its a bit of a faff , and would prefer to keep it all in CC to begin with. I guess this is a question then for the boss and his team of wizards at Dtouch ; Can you help with the output of Quick controls to Midi CC , or could there be a way to have multiple profiles for your Midi Remote Ctrl , that "Reads " the Quick controls , for each track in focus , and then assigns them on the virtual Midi Controller , depending on what "profile" of Quick controls" are on that track.

Sorry if this seems a bit long winded and a whiney question, but it really does mess up my current workflow ; If someone can educate me to a simple work around (if there is one) for my needs, i would love to hear.

Thanks guys in advance

Paul J

Hello Paul,

I will answer here to you previous post and also to the E-Mail message that you sent me and that I copy in the following:

*************** E-Mail by Paul **********************
Hi Silvano,

As you know i use Dtouch in my workflow with 2 touch screens, and a fader CC controller. I made a post on forum but i dont think i explained myself very well So no one answered it.

What i want to do is this :

I have large project with Many midi track templates , with around 30-40 Different Quick Control Presets, all saved with MIDI ccs for quick editing , for each sample library developer.
However, Quick controls output lane automation, instead of Midi CC in piano roll No!!!!

So, your new Midi CC Control (Touch screen) is amazing, BUT as i have Soooooo many different Midi CC to control , on large template, it would take too long , to change the cc of each virtual fader everytime i work on different Midi track with different CCs.

My questions are :

1) Is there ANYWAY your Virtual Midi Controller could "Focus and Track" on the selected tracks Quick controls - so they automatically appear on the Virtual Fader ,below
2) If so, it would be great if i can control this fader with my Fader CC controller (It works great on touch screen, but after long sessions with so much moving arms get very sore using just touch screen, and any way Dtouch takes up most of my workspace already

3) If not , does Dtouch/DFader have a work around for out putting CC from Track Quick Controls (on Midi Tracks) INSTEAD of automation - so it automatically appear in piano roll, just like your Virtual Fader

Any advice you can offer as a composer with a large template, would be great

************* End of the E-Mail by Paul ***********************

My considerations:
to be very honest, I haven't understood this QC and MIDIcc mixture. So, instead of asking you for more details, I want to propose my solution. Maybe that I am completely out of road, but my idea could be a starting point.
So, my idea is this:

we could (optionally) "connect" the current DTouch MIDI Remote to the selected track. What does this mean? It means that you could, after a huge setup job ( ), set the MIDIcc# on a per-track-basis. For example you could have the first virtual fader mapped to cc#22 when you select the track named "Spitfire CS Violins 1" and the (same) first virtual fader mapped to cc#67 when you select the track named "8Dio CB French Horn Solo". Are you following me?

An additional thing that we could do is to include an "EC" button (like "External Controller") in the Dtouch MIDI Remote. In this way the physical external controller would be the physical twin of the virtual faders.

As you see, I haven't spoken about the Quick-Controls because your message is obscure to me on that matter. Tell me what you think.

It may not necessarily address the issue here, but it may be a good idea to add a QC function to the MIDI remote for the people who work primarily with synths (especially those from steinberg), as their envelope and filter controls are usually mapped to QCs.

So the user could choose between sending CC or QC data on any given fader in that window. It may have to be a separate remote, though.

Hi Silvano,

Thanks for Answering me .

Yes that could be a good solution - it would not be TOO big a set up job as i have many tracks that use the same CC's - For example most spitfire libraries etc .

So what you are purposing is having "Presets" for the virtual fader? So if i choose a track with a preset of 8 CCs , it could switch to them - or would i have to select a different profile each time ? (Not a massive problem, but would be nice to be able to "Auto focus" .

The main outcome is Drawing Midi CC's in to the Midi editor / Midi parts INSTEAD of what Quick Controls do which is write Lane automation for the track - Because Quick controls can control Audio tracks, etc too .

I am so used to working with Midi CCs - and i am not so happy about working with automation lanes - Also you have to Remember to enable "Write automation" and Read automation etc, and when working with alot of Midi controllers , you can easily make mistakes, and the lanes are harder to find in a huge project . Does that help you understand ?

Currently the Dtouch Midi Fader ALREADY puts out Midi CC and not automation , but the problem with both options is then you are stuck with only 8 or 16 CCs for whole project.

One last request, would be that i can then Control the Dtouch Midi Dfader with my Generic 100mm Fader x 8 Bank. You might think, why would i want to do that when i already have them on touch screen , But alot of people like the physical controls for Midi CC and besides i have loads of Dtouch workspaces already


Many many people (Well with large projects that use Midi CC alot ) have asked for Quick Controls to output Midi CC or a similar thing - for the same reason as me , on Steinberg and VI Control forums - None of the Daws currently operate like this without a BIG workaround .

If you can add this option that you said about "Presets" for different Tracks relatively easy, and allow a physical controller to control it (Maybe you already can, have not looked in to it ) i think you could also bring in alot more composers that have the same problem and have not yet found a solution

EDIT: Ah i C you already mentioned about the ability to control with an external Physical controller.

Yes please to both of these features


I can try make some screens / videos of problem if necessary to help people.

Here are some of the threads i have mentioned ; If you are not happy me linking other threads in here (though they are not competitors ) please remove them and i apologise, but just trying to show that there is a market.

https://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=23943

https://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=84827

https://vi-control.net/community/thread ... ons.58536/

https://vi-control.net/community/thread ... art.51051/


You can find many many more threads but you get the idea - alot of people keep asking for what i am proposing ; Because they have always worked in the piano roll from Atari ST days !!!!

Paul

cpia2002 wrote: ↑

11 Mar 2018 09:47

So what you are purposing is having "Presets" for the virtual fader? So if i choose a track with a preset of 8 CCs , it could switch to them - or would i have to select a different profile each time ? (Not a massive problem, but would be nice to be able to "Auto focus" .

It would automatically follow the selected track.

cpia2002 wrote: ↑

11 Mar 2018 09:47

The main outcome is Drawing Midi CC's in to the Midi editor / Midi parts INSTEAD of what Quick Controls do which is write Lane automation for the track - Because Quick controls can control Audio tracks, etc too .

I am so used to working with Midi CCs - and i am not so happy about working with automation lanes - Also you have to Remember to enable "Write automation" and Read automation etc, and when working with alot of Midi controllers , you can easily make mistakes, and the lanes are harder to find in a huge project . Does that help you understand ?

OK, I suppose to having understood your concerns against the Quick Controls (QC), but I continue to not understand what we should do, because I have never spoken about the QC. DTouch actually output MIDIcc, not QC.

cpia2002 wrote: ↑

11 Mar 2018 09:47

Currently the Dtouch Midi Fader ALREADY puts out Midi CC and not automation , but the problem with both options is then you are stuck with only 8 or 16 CCs for whole project.

OK, but with my last idea of the "MIDIcc Presets" automatically following the selected track, you would have 32 MIDIcc for each track. They should be more than sufficient in my opinion. Or not?

cpia2002 wrote: ↑

11 Mar 2018 09:47

One last request, would be that i can then Control the Dtouch Midi Dfader with my Generic 100mm Fader x 8 Bank.

OK.

cpia2002 wrote: ↑

11 Mar 2018 09:47

You might think, why would i want to do that when i already have them on touch screen , But alot of people like the physical controls for Midi CC and besides i have loads of Dtouch workspaces already

OK, in fact I am one of those.

Hi,

Thanks for replying .

Sorry , you can forgot Quick Controls - i was just wondering HOW the virtual Dtouch Fader would "Follow" the assignments for each VI or selected Midi track - i just presumed maybe it could read the current QC assignment which are MIDI CCs ; Just thought this might save alot of work from your side . Do you have a better idea how each track would "store" its own set of Midi ccs for the Virtual Midi Controls ? Perhaps a bespoke system in Dtouch where you can store your settings for different tracks etc.

Just to make it clear i do want Midi CCs output , (like your fader) not the automation of QC , but just presumed that the easiest way of implementing my suggestion would of been reading the current midi assignments for the QC on the track ; but that is why i am the customer and you are the programmer

I think this feature would also tie in beautifully with your dedicated Dtouch Fader controller that is being discussed - a great solution for a number of media composers and others etc .

Finally, i have it on my to-do list to convert / re create the Downloadable Pro Tools Dtouch Marco library , for Cubase users . Would you be ok with me this ? (when i get round it to!) and as my understanding is of DAWS and not programming , i would just rewrite them all for Cubase as i know no other way.

Thanks again for your great customer support at Dtouch - I hope you remain like this when you are get as big as AVID, NI etc

PJ

cpia2002 wrote: ↑

14 Mar 2018 11:08

Sorry , you can forgot Quick Controls - i was just wondering HOW the virtual Dtouch Fader would "Follow" the assignments for each VI or selected Midi track - i just presumed maybe it could read the current QC assignment which are MIDI CCs ; Just thought this might save alot of work from your side .

OK, now we should both have understood the other one.
DTouch can do this: when the user select a track in Cubendo, DTouch knows the name of the selected track.
Tha said, suppose that you have selected a track whose name is "Spitfire Violins 1"; DTouch could "recall" a DTouch MIDIcc preset named "Spitfire Violins 1". This preset have all the correct MIDIcc settings for that instrument. Who have set/saved this "Spitfire Violins 1" preset? The user!
How could the user set/save a preset? For example starting from a blank preset, tweaking it and save it with a new name. There would be a library of presets to give you a fast way to map the same previously saved preset to more tracks (for example we all know that usually all the instruments in a Strings Spitfire Library have the various MIDIcc mapped to the same instrument control).
Anyway, this preset_library management system is to be defined. At the moment I am only supposing one possible workflow.
So, after an initial (huge) setup by the user, you will have all the presets associated to the name of the tracks. When you will select a track, Cubendo will automatically put it in monitor mode (passing the MIDI data to that track), DTouch will automatically recall a MIDIcc preset and you will be able to write that MIDIcc to the selected track.
I hope that this is should be clear enough and you should be able to understand it usefullness.

cpia2002 wrote: ↑

14 Mar 2018 11:08

Do you have a better idea how each track would "store" its own set of Midi ccs for the Virtual Midi Controls ? Perhaps a bespoke system in Dtouch where you can store your settings for different tracks etc.

As previously described, it would be a DTouch system. We should do some brainstorming about it because there should be the option to move the information between different projects, storing in local or global mode, etc ... etc ...

cpia2002 wrote: ↑

14 Mar 2018 11:08

Just to make it clear i do want Midi CCs output , (like your fader) not the automation of QC , but just presumed that the easiest way of implementing my suggestion would of been reading the current midi assignments for the QC on the track ; but that is why i am the customer and you are the programmer

Perfect, we will give you a tool to send MIDIcc, forget the QC for this purpose.

cpia2002 wrote: ↑

14 Mar 2018 11:08

I think this feature would also tie in beautifully with your dedicated Dtouch Fader controller that is being discussed - a great solution for a number of media composers and others etc .

Yes, the physical controller will only be the physical version of the current touch version. Nothing less.

cpia2002 wrote: ↑

14 Mar 2018 11:08

Finally, i have it on my to-do list to convert / re create the Downloadable Pro Tools Dtouch Marco library , for Cubase users . Would you be ok with me this ? (when i get round it to!) and as my understanding is of DAWS and not programming , i would just rewrite them all for Cubase as i know no other way.

I don't exactly understand you. Do you want to rebuild the DTouch_PT library for DTouch_Cubendo? If so, those DAW are very different, with very different workflow, keyscommands/shortcuts, etc ... not everything will be possible in Cubase. Maybe something different, not possible in DTouch_PT. And to be honest, they are different DAWs for different users. But, you can do what you want ... we will support you.

cpia2002 wrote: ↑

14 Mar 2018 11:08

Thanks again for your great customer support at Dtouch - I hope you remain like this when you are get as big as AVID, NI etc

That big? I doubt! Companies like Avid and Steinberg suffer for the lack of a real owner, a real human guide. They have incredible resources, but they move so slow, probably because nobody has a real interest in a technical advancement.
I want to write a brief story: some years ago I was designing a piece of hardware and I was testing a complex component (a north_south_bridge for a Motorola PowerPC) by a huge semiconductor company named "Marvell". Marvell had 5000 employees and they had more or less 10 active integrated circuit designs. They told me that the design group for that component was a huge one (compared to their usual regular designs) and was a team of 15 engineers. I was shocked! Only 15 engineers for the design of a very complex component! 10 projects x 15 engineers = 150 engineers. 5000 employees!! What the fuck were doing the 4850 others in a fabless semiconductor company?
As you can see the development teams are usually very small. Those who does the "real" job are usually very few. I suppose tha AVID is the same. If you have the luck to have an "illuminated" team manager, you can hope to see some improvements in the product. If you think that the CEO (with a "Business Administration" degree) will take care of their products, probably you are wrong; he/she must take care of the other 4850 employees, banks, investors, ... and at the end he is neither the owner of the company.

Tha said, suppose that you have selected a track whose name is "Spitfire Violins 1"; DTouch could "recall" a DTouch MIDIcc preset named "Spitfire Violins 1". This preset have all the correct MIDIcc settings for that instrument. Who have set/saved this "Spitfire Violins 1" preset? The user!

Waouh..... genious...

Great : )


Thank you , this is exactly what i am after . As for massive user work to set it up, it is ok, am used to it - maybe finish template for ever one day! Sure you are the same and many others , keep changing DAW template , trying to make it better, new libraries etc

I think many people will love this feature and give another edge over the competition. It will be much better than the current QC design i use, for the reasons i said

Interesting story about your background - that sounds insane - such overheads and wages - no wonder many products cost many many times more than you would expect.

I think sadly some Big music software companies have also become like that Too much accounts, not so much new innovations ; but there is still some very fine ones too.

PJ