switching from PT to Cubase

[clonewar]

I missed this, so sorry for the late reply.

Here's where I'm at:

I'm currently working on my system dual boot.
It defaults to Windows 8.1, in which I start new sessions, and copy older sessions to in which I need to do additional recording.
If I need to work on older sessions, without doing audio recording, I boot into Sierra and work from there.
This also allows me to keep monitoring the state of Pro Tools on Mac after either of them are updated.

Pro Tools in Windows is more stable for me at the moment, no doubt. If you work at higher buffers, you might not notice a significant difference.
I agree with Silvano that the Mac version of DTouch for Pro Tools is superior to the Windows version.
That's a little ironic since it is windows that natively supports multi touch.
On 8.1 at least, that feels a little 'slapped on'.
However, the Windows version of DTouch is certainly workable, and the gains I get with running PT on windows outweigh the losses I get by running DT on windows. The main thing that's slowing me down on DTouch on windows at the moment is horizontal scrolling in the edit window. It is unusable and since windows doesn't seem to allow my magic trackpad to do any scrolling, I'm left with a frustrating experience.
(I may be overlooking a solution there)

Regarding DT PT vs. Cubase, I prefer the PT version although I appreciate the Cubase version is going to be much more powerful.
(There will be almost certainly functions in the Cubase version that I would like to see in the PT version.)

Some reasons why I prefer the PT version:
-It's laid out more ergonomically, with the DT buttons laid out horizontally at the bottom of screen.
-I do relatively simple things in DTouch, the elaborate stuff is taken care of by PT itself, with Cubase's I'd have to try and get DTouch to do some of that elaborate stuff and I'm not sure how far I could get with that. I didn't invest the time to try.
-I like PT more than I like Cubase (you can write that off as unfair bias). Both the PT and Cubase versions 'get out of the way' of the DAW quite effectively, but I feel like it's more elegant in Pro Tools, maybe because PT has a simpler GUI. I'm not sure that's fair.

Regarding touch on windows, I'm not sure DTouch for Cubase performs better than PT (I have a feeling it did, but it could be nonsense).
Even with tap and hold (for right click) disabled (WHY IS THAT THE ONLY OPTION MICROSOFT????? ) on windows, the response from the faders are significantly jumpier than it is on Mac. I may have to tweak some more settings (I'm not sure if I ploughed through the whole manual, come to think of it). Or it may be that this is just what the touch support of Windows 8.1 is and the DTouch driver on Mac is just much, much better.

All in all, at the moment I'm just working, because that's what I need to do. No more time for testing etc.
I will keep an eye on Cubase, Studio One and Bitwig (I still have to demo that one) as potential platforms to compose in.

Hope this helps, let me know if you have more questions or feel free to PM me. We can always do a little Skype chat to discuss specifics.

Thanks for the details! I might take you up on your Skype chat offer to go over some question when I get PT installed to hit the ground running, that would be great. One of my concerns with PT is performance issues on the Mac like you've experienced, and I've seen others talking about errors and CPU usage issues with the latest versions of PT 12. I mix at higher sample rates, and I integrate outboard gear so most of the plugins I use are on the lighter side.. I'm hoping that means that I won't run into major performance issues.

Like I mentioned in my last post, I prefer PT's user interface to Nuendo. The Cubendo version of DTouch definitely has more features, especially with the matrix window and new floating mixer, but I'm going to spend some time with DTouch and PT and see if using memory locations to move around the mix will work well enough to take advantage of the things that I like in PT.

About the touch response in Windows.. One thing I've noticed is how much of a difference the monitor setting in DTouch makes regarding the touch 'feel' of the faders. Even on my Acer there's a big difference between Acer fast response and Acer regular response. DT definitely has a lot going on under the hood to optimize the response of the faders, and that setting is crucial.

BTW.. What version of PT do you use? HDX, HD Native, or vanilla? And if it's vanilla, what audio interface are you using?

Thanks again!
Michael

[~ufo~]

No worries, any time. I'd be happy to give you some tips over skype or whatever platform is handy.

I'm using PTHD 12(.8 as of Yesterday) on HD native with an SSL delta link and two SSL ALpha links (one in my LR, one in my CR).

[DT_bettinzana]

Hi Silvano,

First off, I'm only thinking about moving to PT for mixing, I'd still use Cubase or Logic for midi composing work. I like the composing/editing process to be separate from mixing, so my workflow is that I'll tweak the sounds a little while I'm working with midi, but I always print everything to audio for the mixing stage.

OK, understood!
I do the exact opposite: I like having one DAW and project from start to end and I plan to have many VEP slaves to have everything (all my Kontakt instruments) inline without the need for track freezing/rendering. But many others use your workflow. For sure I will have an higher energy bill

[Home Studio 87]

I plan to have many VEP slaves to have everything (all my Kontakt instruments) inline without the need for track freezing/rendering

That's how I use Cubase......

[clonewar]

No worries, any time. I'd be happy to give you some tips over skype or whatever platform is handy.

I'm using PTHD 12(.8 as of Yesterday) on HD native with an SSL delta link and two SSL ALpha links (one in my LR, one in my CR).

How is 12.8 working out for you so far? Have you used it in macOS? I've been reading about improvements for guys getting CPU (and other) errors.

I have a trial of PT 11 HD that I'm using with a DTouch PT trial right now. So far I've been using PT and DTouch on my Mac with my 46" touchscreen, still getting used to it. The touch response is very smooth, it feels better than my Win 10 setup. There are some things that I like better using PT, like the mixer racks being visible at the same time as the DTouch buttons/controls. Of course, DTouch for PT is very limited compared to DTouch for Nuendo. I'm missing the Matrix window and the floating mixer. And PT doesn't have anything like the Cubase/Nuendo channel editor, which I find makes inserts and sends easier to work with on smaller touchscreens. The DTouch macro system has access to much more Cubase/Nuendo project info too.

One of the things bugging me is controlling send levels.. Only the first five send slots are available to swap to the faders (a HUI limitation I believe), what are you doing for sends six and above? Is the pop up send fader the only option?

[DT_bettinzana]

One of the things bugging me is controlling send levels.. Only the first five send slots are available to swap to the faders (a HUI limitation I believe), what are you doing for sends six and above? Is the pop up send fader the only option?

Yes, it is a HUI limitation, like many and many others

[clonewar]

One of the things bugging me is controlling send levels.. Only the first five send slots are available to swap to the faders (a HUI limitation I believe), what are you doing for sends six and above? Is the pop up send fader the only option?

Yes, it is a HUI limitation, like many and many others

Thanks Silvano, that's what I thought. HUI is terrible! At least the touch interface removes some of HUI's restrictions since you're interacting directly with PT and plugins.

So it looks like controlling send six and above will require opening the send fader and working one track at a time?

[~ufo~]

How is 12.8 working out for you so far? Have you used it in macOS? I've been reading about improvements for guys getting CPU (and other) errors.

I have. No discernible difference from me on that front.

I'm missing the Matrix window and the floating mixer.

I'm not sure if I ever have enough tracks visible at one time to make the Matrix window interesting to me.
What do you most use it for?

And PT doesn't have anything like the Cubase/Nuendo channel editor, which I find makes inserts and sends easier to work with on smaller touchscreens.

you mean linke a sort of amplified per track send/IO/insert selecter? No.
It doesn't bother me on my 27" though. Guess it takes some practice.
Plus, most of my settings are preset. I never start building from scratch so I don't need to create hundreds of inserts, IO settings and sends per track.

One of the things bugging me is controlling send levels.. Only the first five send slots are available to swap to the faders (a HUI limitation I believe), what are you doing for sends six and above? Is the pop up send fader the only option?

I hardly ever use the the second bank of send slots. Not since I don't "share" FX between instrument groups anymore.
That's probably why I don't really find a use for swapping the sends to the faders and the pop up fader to adjust is fine with me.

It all depends on how you work, I guess. If I would create cue mixes via sends, for instance, I'm sure I'd use the swap to sends.
But since they have their own hearback mixers and I've got all of that stuff preset in my sessions, I hardly touch those sends.

[clonewar]

How is 12.8 working out for you so far? Have you used it in macOS? I've been reading about improvements for guys getting CPU (and other) errors.

I have. No discernible difference from me on that front.

That's a bummer.. What are your typical sessions like? How many tracks and plugins? If you don't want to get into details here we can wait until we chat live.. I'm going to take you up on your offer!

I'm not sure if I ever have enough tracks visible at one time to make the Matrix window interesting to me.
What do you most use it for?

For me the Matrix window is great for getting the initial levels of a project with a lot of tracks set. You don't have to hide and show tracks, everything is there to control on one screen. It's also great as a bird's eye overview of your project, being able to see (small) metering for every track on one screen.

The downside to the Matrix window is that it puts a lot of what you might want to control towards or at the top of the screen, so I enjoy using it more on my 27" screen than the 46".

you mean linke a sort of amplified per track send/IO/insert selecter? No.
It doesn't bother me on my 27" though. Guess it takes some practice.
Plus, most of my settings are preset. I never start building from scratch so I don't need to create hundreds of inserts, IO settings and sends per track.

There is a lot more fingertip aiming involved with hitting and navigating the insert and send slots on a 27" screen, which I try to avoid. I'll be building macros to insert plugins though, so it's not a show stopper. And if I stay with PT it'll probably be on my 46" screen, I'm finding that it works well on the larger screen, there's not much at the top of the screen that I need to reach for often. On the 46" it isn't a problem at all, the slots and pop up menus are plenty large enough to make it easy to navigate, although I do find it a pain to slide my finger through the menus to get to the plugin I want.....macro time!

I need to work on more session templates too, that'll definitely help. And track template macros that will set up all of the inserts and sends with one button.

I hardly ever use the the second bank of send slots. Not since I don't "share" FX between instrument groups anymore.
That's probably why I don't really find a use for swapping the sends to the faders and the pop up fader to adjust is fine with me.

It all depends on how you work, I guess. If I would create cue mixes via sends, for instance, I'm sure I'd use the swap to sends.
But since they have their own hearback mixers and I've got all of that stuff preset in my sessions, I hardly touch those sends.

I don't do cue mixes in software either so it's really more about sharing FX. I think it'll require some workflow changes (more FX busses) because I'd much rather flip the send levels to the faders than use the pop up fader.

Overall I'm pretty happy so far with PT and DTouch.. I still have to stress test PT to make sure that I don't run into the same type of performance issues. DTouch is much more limited, but I really do prefer PT's interface.

[~ufo~]

What are your typical sessions like? How many tracks and plugins?

Hundreds of tracks and channels but most start out and stay inactive.
like I probably said before, the main issue is with tracking at lowest buffer. It needn't take a single plugin to get a showstopper.
A little zooming in and out whilst recording a single track could result in a show stopper.
It's not something that would hinder you much during mixes I expect.

If you don't want to get into details here we can wait until we chat live.. I'm going to take you up on your offer!

Cool, just hit me up and we'll set something up!

There is a lot more fingertip aiming involved with hitting and navigating the insert and send slots on a 27" screen, which I try to avoid. I'll be building macros to insert plugins though, so it's not a show stopper. And if I stay with PT it'll probably be on my 46" screen, I'm finding that it works well on the larger screen, there's not much at the top of the screen that I need to reach for often. On the 46" it isn't a problem at all, the slots and pop up menus are plenty large enough to make it easy to navigate, although I do find it a pain to slide my finger through the menus to get to the plugin I want.....macro time!

Yeah, but you'll get used to it. It doesn't bother me to do it on a 27".
That said, no one said you weren't allowed to grab the mouse or trackpad for a task or two!

Another tip in protools that will help:
You can pick a whole bunch of fave plugs to show up at the top of your list, before having to go into the type and/or manufacturers' subfolders. I suggest you invest thirty minutes to put all of your go to plugs in there.
You have to do them one by one and per 'type" (multi)mono stereo etc, so it takes a bit of time.
But it's worth it. Go to any slot, hold down command as you click to instantiate a plugin, choose one of your go to plugins and boom.
Next time you see the plugin browser, you'll find that plugin at the top of the list.
Just a little tip before you start programming macros...

I need to work on more session templates too, that'll definitely help. And track template macros that will set up all of the inserts and sends with one button.

yeah, you could do that. In decided to just have a large template pro tools sessions with everything set up in stead of that.
So I never got round to creating macros for that. I'm not saying my way is better, it's just what I ended up doing.
My template project predates DTouch so that may have something to do with it.

Overall I'm pretty happy so far with PT and DTouch.. I still have to stress test PT to make sure that I don't run into the same type of performance issues. DTouch is much more limited, but I really do prefer PT's interface.

I've always liked PT's interface too. Simple, intuitive and flexible. Pretty No Nonsense but powerful.